FCC chief grills Comcast on BitTorrent blocking

At a hearing in Cambridge, Mass., the five FCC commissioners question Comcast Executive Vice President David Cohen on his company's practice of delaying peer-to-peer file-sharing traffic during congested times.
(Credit: Anne Broache/CNET News.com )Update at 3:10 p.m. PST: CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--Federal Communications Commission chief Kevin Martin on Monday targeted Comcast's contention that delaying peer-to-peer file-sharing traffic serves user interests, appearing to sympathize with the cable company's critics.
Through pointed questioning at a public hearing at Harvard Law School here, Martin, a Republican, seemed to be pushing a two-pronged agenda: Internet service providers like Comcast should be as transparent as possible about manipulating network traffic, and consumers should have the freedom to, in effect, get what they pay for.
But at the end of the event, which, all told, lasted nearly six hours, Martin told reporters he still hadn't made up his mind about whether Comcast had done anything more than "reasonable" network management.
The chairman was also unable to predict when the Commission would reach a decision on Comcast's conduct and the broader question of constraints on network operators' traffic-shaping practices, except to say, "I think it's important we try to act very quickly."
The FCC convened Monday's hearing as part of an investigation into Comcast's practice of stalling uploads to BitTorrent protocol clients. It's considering two petitions--one from public-interest groups and one from the peer-to-peer video-sharing service Vuze--that ask the FCC to forcibly stop Comcast's BitTorrent throttling and to make new rules defining what constitutes "reasonable" network management by Internet service providers.
The whole debate is an extension of the years-old tussle over whether Net neutrality regulations, which would prohibit network operators from prioritizing traffic as they wish, are necessary to safeguard the Internet's historically open architecture.
Congress is also continuing to consider such moves. Democratic Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.), whose district lies near the site of Monday's hearing, has proposed a new bill that would discourage, though not outright prohibit, Internet service providers from engaging in "unreasonable discriminatory favoritism" of content on their pipes. He warned commissioners in a speech at the start of Monday's event to take with a grain of salt any broadband providers' professions of "reasonable" network management in the interest of consumer welfare.
Martin has said in the past that he doesn't believe there's any need for new regulations, be he warned at the outset of Monday's hearing that the commission was taking the allegations against Comcast "very seriously." (Martin has been known to clash with the cable industry on other issues, namely the idea of offering channels "a la carte," in his day.)
Earlier in the day, Martin first asked a series of questions to Gilles BianRosa, the chief executive of Vuze, a video-sharing Web site, in an apparent effort to establish that the service involves transfer of lawful content and does not hog bandwidth.
Then, after hearing from a panel of academics, public-interest group representatives, and Comcast and Verizon executives, Martin asked a series of questions designed to determine whether consumers are getting enough information about the quality of Internet service they're getting and its potential limitations. (None of the panelists, for the record, has ever managed networks, though a second panel in the afternoon consists of people with such expertise.)
He then turned to Comcast Executive Vice President David Cohen and asked why his company "thinks it's necessary to block" peer-to-peer file-sharing traffic when its customers "are acting within the constraints you sold them."
"Doesn't that undermine the arguments you're making?" Martin asked.
"It doesn't undermine the argument," Cohen replied. "I don't think we're restraining the customers from using the service in accordance with the way we're selling it to them."
Cohen went on to read from a list of frequently asked questions for customers, which he quoted as saying, "Comcast may on a limited basis temporarily delay certain P2P traffic when that traffic has or is projected to have an adverse effect on other customers' use of the service."
Martin questioned whether that sort of disclosure is detailed enough to give both Internet surfers and application developers the information they need.
Definitely not, said Marvin Ammori, general counsel for the public-interest group Free Press, which has petitioned the FCC to declare that degrading any Internet applications is a violation of U.S. broadband policy.
"It's not clear when the high periods of congestion are, what they mean by delay, and if I were trying to design software to that...I'm not sure how I'd do it," he told Martin.
Democratic commissioners Michael Copps and Jonathan Adelstein, who have called for nondiscrimination rules, also pressed the Comcast executive to justify his company's practices.
"Comcast does not block any Web site, application, or Web protocol, including peer-to-peer services, period," Cohen responded. "What we are doing is a limited form of network management objectively based upon an excessive bandwidth-consumptive protocol during limited periods of network congestion."
Republican Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate came the closest to voicing reservations about new antidiscrimination rules for Internet service providers. She indicated barring broadband operators from managing their networks for any purpose much beyond defeating spam and viruses, as some public-interest groups have suggested, would be unprecedentedly broad and could be better addressed by greater transparency by the companies.
Commissioner Robert McDowell, a Republican, like the others, didn't indicate whether Comcast's behavior is acceptable network management. He did, however, suggest the company's techniques may raise separate questions about competition for video content delivery.
"I think if Comcast did not also provide video services," he said, "we would not be here having this debate."
Martin ended the question-and-answer session, which lasted more than two hours, by asking whether the FCC even has the authority to go after Comcast, should it decide the company's network management violates its broadband policy principles. The FCC declared in 2005 that customers have the right to use the content, lawful applications, and devices they wish on the networks they use.
Comcast's Cohen said he doesn't believe the FCC has the power to fine his company. But as for whether the regulators can force the cable operator to stop treating file-sharing traffic the way it does, he said, "I'm not 100 percent sure; I'll get back to you."
Martin told reporters after Monday's hearing that he continues to believe the FCC already has sufficient power to crack down on incidents of Internet discrimination without the enactment of new laws, just as it did a few years ago when a small North Carolina telephone company was accused of degrading a rival's VoIP (voice over Internet protocol) traffic.
- Share:
- Digg
- Del.icio.us




infrastructure significantly in order to deliver to their customers
what they promise in their advertisements.
Right now, from what I've read, Comcast considers 2GB of data
per month as "average". That seems pretty low in these days of
increasing LEGAL music and movie downloads.
I don't know what AT&T considers excessive use but I've
averaged about 20GB/month lately on my DSL line and haven't
heard any complaints.
Aside from their thinly vailed atempt to make their network look faster, Comcast needs to be extremely careful here. If they are hiding behind the idea that they are only blocking "illegal" activity then they would be accepting liability of the user who is in fact perform "illegal" activities on their network. If they have the ability to detect and block such activity and they do not then they are complacent with the action and are an accomplice by proxy. The MPAA tried to sue ISPs with this line of logic but because no one could conceivably supervise all of their network content they were not liable. Now Comcast has made it evident that they are in fact capable of this level of monitoring and should be held liable for their entire network that they are now ?managing.? Either poop or get off the pot. You are either able to monitor and manage or you are not. You are either responsible for the content of your network or your not? You either provide unfettered access to the internet or you do not?
They are ? but don?t want the liability
They should not be ? but might be if they keep pissing off congress
We don?t ? The internet is more censored than the bible
In the end I just want the fast access I pay for?
like they're offering, this wouldn't be an issue. But the dirty little
secret is that they've oversold their capacity, and to get around
the problems that's causing now that people are actually using
the bandwidth hey thought they were paying for, Comcast is
resorting to cutting people off when they've eaten up too much
bandwidth, delaying p2p traffic so as to discourage its use (only
during "peak hours" of "high congestion" they claim, but who's to
know what the requirements for those criteria actually are?), etc.
I switched from Comcast to AT&T U-Verse. I verified and recorded the conversation with the representative on the phone about bandwith restrictions. There are ZERO. I can use my 6Mbps/1Mbps connection at 100% 24/7 365. And I have been using the connection at about 80% capacity since I got it 4 months ago with no complaint. If Verizon FiOS and AT&T U-Verse can stick to their no-restrictions rules then Comcast and other services will no doubt be dead in the water because of it a few years down the road.
My contract with my Cable MSO states they will provide me with 8Mbps downstream to my house and 768Kbps upstream.
I think that says it all !
No Service Provider should be able to affect my Internet traffic as long as I stay within that agreement.
If I exceed my contract's 8Mbps downstream then..
ok..
"rate-limit" me
-or-
"best effort" me
-or-
"throttle me".
But the Service Provider should NOT affect my traffic in ANY WAY as long as my bandwidth utilization is within my contract's agreement.
Example:
If I use X bandwidth sharing marmot porn on BitTorrent, they spoof packets to everyone I am connected to telling them that I have refused connection.
If I use the same X bandwidth FTPing marmot porn to my web server they do not block me.
Perhaps tomorrow they will start limiting bandwidth to me if I am looking at a competitors website.
Most upload speeds are "estimates". They always start high and slow down as you go.
Learn how your applications work before you go off accusing people maybe?
The amount of data that people want to transfer over the internet is only growing and controlling it is not an option. If Comcast feels that this is such a problem, then they should go back to saying you are allowed to download x amount of information in one month for this cost and it will be x amount more for each GB. Of course they won't because they know that no one will order there service if they do this because no one else charges in that way anymore, so they try and sneak little things in to try and control what we are allowed to do.
That would be like blowing up cars on the highway during rush hour. It won't reduce traffic. It will cause a standstill.
They just wanted to block that type of communications. Probably working hand in hand with RIAA and the music industry.
If this is their claim, I can hardly wait for the class action lawsuit for false advertising, because at the same time they were selling pictures of mercury making their network superfast. Like it was some kind of wire speed drug. And increasing the promised bandwidth to customers.
OK so which is it Comcast?
First off, why is it you suppose Fios and DSL aren't available everywhere? Maybe use some of that "economist" powers to figure that one out.
It couldn't be because it's TOO EXPENSIVE to wire everywhere? That some so called "monopolies" only happen because there just isn't enough business for that service to allow competition everywhere?
Funny, Cable TV develops itself, brings AFFORDABLE high speed internet to the masses (something the PHONE companies could have done 20 years ago, EVERY phone switch produced for the last 20 years or more has been capible of ISDN, yet they priced it out of the consumer's reach for fear of killing the expensive and profitable busness data biz) yet the cable companie's are the bad guys because they try and keep abusers from ruining it for everyone.
Comcast: Rather than throttle (using fairly dubious trix) legitmate and lawful IP packets, why don't you rise to the challenge of high traffic with an innovative technical solution?
""What we are doing is a limited form of network management objectively based upon an excessive bandwidth-consumptive protocol during limited periods of network congestion.""
Upper management is no longer based on leadership or experience, its based on how much of a scumbag you are willing to be.
miketam41 (and anyone else)... they are NOT throttling. They are forging reset packets to falsely indicate the remote end has closed the connection. And, it seems, it is not just hitting bittorrent, but VPNs (virtual private networks, used by people to connect to their work network..) and other protocols. If they were just reducing the speed of these connections during peak times, well, some people might object but I would tell them to cry me a river. That's not what they are doing.
The Comcast guy is being quite dishonest in saying they are not blocking connections. OK, traditionally blocking is preventing a connection from going through. But, to me, allowing a connection to come up, then artificially closing it, is in fact also blocking. Comcast is blocking services.
I just hope that the FCC guys got enough information to understand that what Comcast is doing is NOT throttling.. ideally 1) They would disallow what Comcast is doing.. the ISP should not be interfering with anyone's connections. and 2) They would allow throttling... (ideally all ISPs would build out enough to cover usage and not need throttling, but barring that, it's better to have some throttling than have the whole network be slow.. I don't want my occasional torrents to slow down neighbors; conversely, my next door neighbor torrents quite a bit and I don't want that to slow me down when I'm just web surfing.)
From reading the other comments it looks like some people are using consumer services for what look like commercial usage.
If you want guaranteed bandwidth and services then you will just have to pay.
Example: If I went into a store and bought a cheap and cheerful electric screwdriver (last thing I bought) I wouldn?t expect it to be the best screwdriver out there. If I wanted the best I would have had to pay more.
It?s the same with internet connections.
The only thing the providers are not doing right in my opinion is telling us in advance what we are really buying.
For information I?m in the UK on Talk-Talk. Which gives me phone line, calls and internet for £22 a month. I have 3Mb up and 400Kb down, with a cap of 40GB a month.
Works for me. If I wanted faster, unlimited with no throttling or delaying then I would go for a different service.
(fortunately I no longer use Comcast).
You can not imply that large bandwidth consumption = commercial usage, that has no legal or logical basis.
They should have been adding capacity with all your money, but instead they chose to line their pockets. And if they did not have expansion projects initiated, in areas affect by this 'network management' practice, immediately after having to resort to this practice, then yes they should be fined as well, for intending to short sell more customers.
Whether they throttle or block, even during peak times, its wrong. Why, because there is no definition of 'peak time' in the contract, there is no directive for Comcast to keep 'peak time' to a minimum. Thus peak time can be 24/7, and they will throttle or block whatever and whenever they want, and there is no real legal recourse.
This ambiguity, is their legal loophole, to over sell their capacity, which is what they have done.
Did they not advertise "always on, always connected, highspeed broadband internet access"?
Subscribing 110%-130% or more of the available capacity is the norm. The Telco's operate under the premise that not every customer will be online at the same time. Discarding the fact that the network will bog down at three quarters capacity. The consumers appetite for bandwidth and the corporations greed will never work and play well together.
So I know the network guys at comcast love to keep the worm spreading.
Using Comcast's terminology rather than an accurate one only allows the corporate shills in the FCC to ignore their public duty without fear of public outcry.
At such time proponents of net neutrality will have the highest chances of reinstating net neutrality or something equally effective.
Your idea is silly. You can't get everything for almost nothing. You want everything? Be prepared to pay a LOT.
- Let' block everything....
-
by d13e13s
February 29, 2008 10:43 AM PST
- We've all been hearing a great deal about how Comcast is blocking P2P traffic, however
-
Reply to this comment
-
See all 36 Comments >>I have heard absolutely nothing in regard to their new methods of filtering so called "spam".
Over the past month or so I have noticed a significant decrease in the number of e-mails
that I have been receiving on my Comcast e-mail account, while some of these e-mail are truly "spam", I am not getting legitimate e-mail, having gone from receiving 100+ e-mail
messages a week to maybe 2 or 3 a week.
Comcast gave no advance warning of their new spam filtering methodology, nor did they provide customers with any transparent way to adjust the way their personal e-mail is delivered, I don't even know if what I'm not getting is something important, as it is apparently filtered before it even reaches my mailbox. I do know for a fact that I am not getting some e-mail that I do want to receive such as several news letters that I am subscribed to. I have gone onto the e-mail reader on their website (I prefer to use Microsoft Outlook) and only after much digging around was able to find a button that allowed me to switch off the spam filter, I have not been able to determine if this has actually turned off the spam filter. I had also noticed that there is a dialog box which enables you to block e-mail from a sender but was unable to locate a control that would enable you to allow e-mail from a specific sender.
I hate spam as much as the next guy, however my concern is that Comcast has such arrogance
as to believe that it knows what is best for everybody. I was perfectly satisfied with managing my own junk e-mail filter. If my postman were to stop delivering junk mail to my mailbox and was just throwing it away he would be up on Federal Criminal Charges.